So, I've been thinking. And you're all right. Neutral will never bring on change.

is riddled with the "we must stay neutral" mentality, this creates a problem in this space, it simply isn't safe for minorities to participate in a lot of the conversations.

This means being neutral isn't neutral at all.

Who's onboard to work on FLOSS from an anti-racist, intersectional feminist perspective?

On that note! If you have some resources easily available about anti-racist and anti-fascist, intersectional and feminist work done in the tech space, feel free to throw it my way.

I will do some research soon too (thank you lazy web).

Both within and outside of Open Source is welcome!

I also want it to be inclusive of Trans people, and sex workers since both is sometimes missing in Feminism. ( :trebuchet: TERFs and SWERFs)

And I do not see myself, as a white woman who's made way too many mistakes, lead this. I can participate by organization, and build some enthusiasm.

I do see a lot lovely nd., poc folx in our space here, who I'd love to see help lead this kinda of thing.

@maloki @dansup Union maybe a bad term for it. Look. I want multiple software options, for multiple scenarios. More ActivityPub options is a GOOD thing.

For us on on the fringes fedi dev's, I really think it makes sense for us to work together,not code wise necessarily, but try to establish similar practices and feature sets to keep our peeps safe and in an environment they can communicate without fear. E.g. similar privacy features and such. I really think, with the cooperation of multiple projects, we can make the fedi more safe than it is currently. With the latest gab shit, it is something we need to do.

Lemme know what you think about my idea you two.

@bort in regards to this I'm thinking bigger than just Fediverse though.
I'm thinking about doing work in all the open source / communities we have people willing and or interested in doing the work.

That said I wouldn't want us to spread too thin. But support each other where we can.

And also see what's already out there, which women's groups are already doing legwork, which PoC are already doing the leg work, are the organized? How do we help. Etc.

@maloki this is *extremely* important for the longer term survival of FLOSS - as corporates like Microsoft in particular seem to be doing a lot of PR work to put a good image across to minorities both as end users and employees. It might be spin, but there is a lot of resources behind it, and minority groups are business owners and decision makers.

If FLOSS just looks more like projects of edgy white boys in a small bit of USA that *does* harm its wider adoption.

@vfrmedia @maloki

FOSS is full stop corporate ware. MIT/Apache licensing. K8s very good example here.

Libre is very definitely anti capitalist in spirit. GPL licensing. Very much IME white college guy territory. Call it the DSA problem ( I say this as a DS member, heh).

@pnathan @vfrmedia @maloki
It's not that simple. Apache and MPL are corporate by design, but MIT/X11 and BSD are academic in origin. Sometimes a thing (like X-Windows) needs to be shared even if corporations will benefit. The GPL family is very capitalist, but it's about retaining leverage to negotiate with power. So we get dual license projects like Qt

This suggests an AGPL/P2P dual license if we want to structurally favor anticapitalism

@pnathan @vfrmedia @maloki
When you place use restrictions on software or how, that takes it out of the realm of Free software, which I'm actually ok with. It's not without costs, pragmatically or from a PR perspective, but ask me my opinions about PR when I'm not chopping my thoughts up into sections under 500 characters

But, yeah, I'm very interested in this space

@measlytwerp @yaaps @pnathan @vfrmedia I truly just want to decolonize this space though. So no new acronym, as it will defeat the purpose. Maybe?

@maloki @measlytwerp @yaaps @pnathan

there is more a need for social change amongst the people who are already involved in tech than any more new acronyms (which collide with other existing ones especially in different countries, for instance DSA mentioned here was what we called the old govt agency which administered driving tests..

@maloki @yaaps @pnathan @vfrmedia yeah, it might, we can always name it once we know what it is we're doing. 😁

@measlytwerp @yaaps @pnathan @vfrmedia That's the target audience I want to reach. Which will by extension possibly also become more inviting to other people.

@maloki @measlytwerp @pnathan @vfrmedia
It's probably a good idea to define the organizational principles before writing the marketing materials, anyways πŸ˜‚

I have strong opinions about what makes FOSS culture hostile to diversity. Decolonization is a useful lens to express that, albeit a lens for insiders in certain movements. So it'll probably be useful to elaborate on that at some point

@maloki @measlytwerp @pnathan @vfrmedia
eg - Freedom is political. In as much as the core values of FLOSS are user freedom and the right to self actualization, the movement fails many. Income inequality in open source software is worse than other forms of labor. Meritocracy is a lie that brings the injustice of the world into our movement. To correct this, we must prize the contributions of all and prioritize compensation to those most at risk

@yaaps @pnathan @vfrmedia @maloki something I've been thinking about is, whether it might be useful to have a FLOSS license similar to CC-NC, that allows modification and redistribution but forbids commercial use

@eel Forbidding commercial use is tricky though, because as I've understood it it means that user of it can't make any money, i.e.e admins wouldn't be able to have a collection jar for their instance (in case of Mastodon) and that would be a problem.
@yaaps @pnathan @vfrmedia

@maloki @yaaps @pnathan @vfrmedia hmm yeah that wouldn't be good. I'd rather just disallow for-profit use, if that were possible. something to spook the venture capitalists...

@maloki "With great power, comes great responsibility"

@maloki I tried for years, well before the present uptick in extremely online fascism and their ~radical centrist~ enablers, but I got burned out and, in some ways, pushed out.

To me foss has always felt like a coiled spring aching with anticapitalist and radical potential, but so much of it (yesterday&today) is run by dipshits who are heavy invested in the status quo. & While I don't have a lot of faith... seeing actually-rad foss folks on mastodon is giving me some srs hope tho!

I once knew a guy who worked at Red Hat as a community organizer. He was a fiercely anti-chavist Venezuelan expat who claimed to have absolutely no interest in the social and political message of FOSS and once even told me "I don't care, I want to enjoy capitalism"

If these are the folks who organise the community, we have a ton of work on our hands...


I mean, yeah, I know. But I'm going to look for allies first, and go from there. Doesn't have to be all at once, but we will spoon our way forward to make a change.

Don't get me wrong I didn't mean to de-motivate you in any way, I just wanted to share a bit of personal experience that reinforces your point :)

I've been promoting the idea of replacing BDFL figures with accountable and democratic co-operative governance for years, so this is definitely my fight too.


@Antanicus yeah! I got it, kind of. I just wanted to emphasize what my thoughts are.


@Antanicus @maloki I may have even been in the same circles as that person (though I think I would remember them if we ever met irl, lol). I did know a lot of folks who (like myself) were working with open source software/various *nixes in the fancy business world who saw it as a form of harm reduction... but in the end the systems we built were no less harmful than anything else coming from the corporate world at the time. Just cheaper. :blobmiou:

@BunnyHearted thank you. I mean we got to start somewhere.

I've been involved with foss/floss and some hacktivism since 10 years, and coming in as a woman I think I was lucky with which space I came in to, as I've mostly been allowed to thrive.

We'll see where this takes us, I have some folks (and con organisers) I'm going to reach out to, once this becomes a more solid idea.

@maloki I think a big part of what got burned out was the corporate work I was doing and the massively harmful outcomes of it ('big data' was maybe a mistake, lol), and how little it meshed with my own developing politics.

Coming into foss spaces while pretending to be a boy was definitely easier than being in foss spaces as a woman - whether I was stealth or openly trans too. It was... Uh. Well I'm excited for a more inclusive, anti-fascist open source movement, lol.

@maloki you know things are fucked when even running `svn update` might fill your term with slurs and harassment :blobnom:

@aCuteLittleBox I never really care too much about names, so I am not the right person to answer this.

I do however see how using the same acronym would also offer us a chance to reach people who use that acronym.

@maloki alright! I can dig out some research later today. For trans/nb perspectives, check the work by Os Keyes. Will reply later with the rest!

@maloki Hi and sorry for the delay. I can recommend the CHI conference, for example from 2018 the papers from the sessions "Stay Safe Out There", "Methods and research with diverse Communities", "Civic Engagement", "Gender", or from CHI 2019 "Privacy and Sensitive Personal Data ", "Gender", or "Makers and Streamers". If it's a "paper session", there is written research of it. Message me if you need access to any papers!

count me in.

dunno what your vision is, dunno what the ultimate goal is, but centreism is (at best) passively toxic.

and open source, for me, is intrinsically an act of status-quo rebellion and marginalized group cooperation.

what do you want to build, and how can we, as a community, make the environment around the code aggressively supportive of (not just our own) minorities in meaningful ways?

@eryn I think today I'll start with just receiving comments on this post, and boosting them, and letting other voices than mine talk among each other about this.

And I'll see what consensus I find it that.

@maloki I don't know if I'll end up in the FOSS/FLOSS space when I land work, but I'm willing to commit to this both in terms of any work I do in the space as well as any projects I use/support.

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