ok after that post about the social consequences of infinite scrolling, here's another plea

dear programmers/web designers

just make fucking pages. please. i'm begging you. do it so i can find my goddamn place. give me a fuckin landmark here.

also have mercy on people who might be running it on older hardware and maybe don't want to deal with their computer groaning under the weight of a fuckshit mountain of loaded posts

@wigglytuffitout a lot of pagination strategies don't properly hold ur place, that's a whole nother deal

@wigglytuffitout Not even older hardware. My phone can barely deal with it

@wigglytuffitout (If you desperately want infinite scrolling, you can even do what Tumblr does, with infinite-scroll as default and a setting to switch it!)

@gaditb @wigglytuffitout just don't do the other thing Tumblr does and dark path all ui switches

@wigglytuffitout also web designers: so you know how the single biggest thing that web browsers do well and reliably is load pages. they send out a http request, get back some data, and render it
what if.. now bear with me here... what if that, but it was all javascript

@wigglytuffitout I actually really like infinite scrolling, so here are some things that make it good:

add landmarks in your URL, as you pass a section, so reloading the page will get you to (roughly) the same position

only load what is in view (+ a bit of buffer on both sides). The rest of your scroll elements can be replaced with empty divs to fill the scroll height while keeping performance up

@f0x @wigglytuffitout you can't ctrl+f if it unloads everything you're not looking at 😬

@candle @wigglytuffitout yeah but you can't do that when it's on a different page either

@f0x @candle @wigglytuffitout if the divs still have the text, then you can definitely search.

but tbh, just write things that work in plain HTML, make the rest opt-in.

@wigglytuffitout @gaeel The problems with infinite scroll all seem to have fairly obvious solutions.

With pages, the "landmark" moves as new posts are pushed to the front. An infinitescroll can update the url to include the section link of the post that's currently at the top of your scroll view, which has a more stable meaning.

Posts can be made to unload after being scrolled out of view (this is already common)

That said, I've never seen all of the solutions combined in one implementation.

@wigglytuffitout @gaeel I think it is important to ask why nobody has produced a reusable complete implementation, or why nobody you know has heard of it.

@faun @gaeel in the spirit of brutal honesty:

i'm gonna say it hasn't happened yet because there's a lot of bullshit and web designers who are straight-up bad at their jobs.

if not incompetent, it's because they've been told by corporate that infinite scroll is the new ideal, and the reader should not be given clear signposts like a page number. because the signpost is for ME to know where the fuck i am, NOT hidden in the URL bar.

@faun @gaeel this goes double for any content geared to be available on a mobile device, where the URL is going to be far more hidden than it is sitting there in a browser on a PC.

there's likely metrics that people browse for less time when given pagination and clear signposts, as they go "oh shit, i'm on page 22, i've been at this a long time".

there's also likely metrics showing that ads show up far more obviously this way, too.

doesn't make infinite scrolling good design, however.

@faun @gaeel in the end, the answer's probably going to be similar to answers you can receive for many other products.

a corporate eye with laser focus on profit above all else... often comes up with a shitty fucking product.

especially one that irritates users.

because why cultivate good relations and make a product your users enjoy when you could just squeeze everyone for as many pennies *now* instead of the promise of greater profit *later*?

@faun @gaeel i am pretty fucking certain somebody can figure out the crazy riddle of Perhaps We Could Display This In Page Numbers. and if they can't, why the fuck are they programming? they can get the fuck out and find a career that they are more suited for.

after all, making products your users can... use... is kind of a big part of the job.

this is not a gordian knot that has no solution, to swoon over about how wElL nObOdY KnOwS hOw To dO iT.

@wigglytuffitout it's not even that hard to implement something like infinite scrolling with pages, just have a toggle at the top and only load the pages you can see so when you reach the bottom if you want infinite scrolling you see a little 2 in the upper right corner and you're onto the second page

@wigglytuffitout Websites which do this and then have publication info at the "bottom" of the page are evil. It makes it impossible to reach by design.

@wigglytuffitout say what you want about deviantart but at least it lets you pick whether you want infinite or pages in the settings

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