@sir What alternatives could you suggest? IRC is text-only and primitive and Matrix is slow and I haven't yet seen a client with decent UX. I haven't used Zulip or Mattermost yet, I've only heard of them.

@phoe IRC is king, text-only is a feature not a bug

@sir @slp Of course it's a feature - unless you want to chat with someone who isn't a complete and total developer nerd like me or you and wants standard contemporary features like automatic image uploads, conversation threads, channel history, or if you want to build a community of non-technological people around your software. At that point, I observed that people prefer to leave rather than stay on IRC.

Or they start Discord servers of their own.

@phoe @sir The original toot was talking about FOSS projects, so I'm assuming most people involved have a technical background.

Also, with the proper tools, IRC isn't hard to use at all.

@slp @sir Yep - my case is perhaps a little bit more specific. I want a means of collaborating with people who are both deeply technical and deeply non-technical, and also includes most (or at least some) of the features I have listed above. When it comes to programming, I'm eager to nerd all over Freenode, but when it comes to collaborating with non-technerds, I'm looking for something more featureful, or the community will go set up a Discord server anyway.

@phoe @slp I reject this idea that non-nerds *need* features. It makes no sense. More features is more difficult to comprehend.

@sir @phoe @slp

yet: if everynerdy did that, nerds would be dead within a few decades entirely.

nobody's born a nerd. people don't learn in a vacuum. some people need people contact to learn, or pictures, or whatever.

if you're not volunteering to teach, that's understandable -- I refuse too -- but from someone with severe learning problems, I can tell you accessible isn't just cheap hardware

it's unicode, screenreaders, pictures, text-to-speech, and sometimes people contact

just saying ❤️

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@sir @phoe @slp

(plus, technically speaking, that's a broader form of the 640k mistake, in a sense: "nobody 'needs' more than text!" well, okay, but 'nobody' disagrees pretty strongly and there's evidence suggesting that not all people can learn effectively and quickly from pure text, too. :\ )

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