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Fedilab, Nazi enabling 

It's time to stop using Fedilab folks. The dev of that app just announced that he will not be blocking Gab. This is despite overwhelming support for the block from users and devs in a poll that hasn't even completed yet.

I attempted to have a conversation with him yesterday because he gave the appearance of good faith, but he's made it clear that he's fine with Nazis and White Supremacists as long as it doesn't affect him. Receipts will be attached over several toots.

Fedilab, Nazi enabling 

@sandrockcstm also, my whole conversation right now with them

OCR Output (chars: 1713) 

@sandrockcstm
Image 1:
TOACMaeG INE @​ Zl 67% i 6:04 PM

Toot ©

@​sandrockcstm

& Jun 18, 2019 3:42 PM

<<

@​

&

Ww

Sandrock Golem @​sandroc... 2h
Gab

SHOW MORE
@​fedilab

- Ww

Fedilab @​[email protected]​framapia... 2h
Gab

SHOW LESS

@​sandrockcstm
"you'll let us know who you are."

This is ridiculous.

< WwW

Image 2:
a rT [email protected]​G INE @​ Zl 67% i 6:04 PM

€ Toot o

this is because Tusky just de-
platformed Gab from its app.

I'm done retreading the same
argument over and over. Either
you'll oppose the Nazis on Gab
or you won't. When you make
that decision you'll let us know
who you are, and you won't be
able to claim ignorance on the
matter.

<< Ww

© Fedilab @​[email protected]​framapia... 2h
Gab

SHOW LESS

@​sandrockcstm
"you'll let us know who you are."

This is ridiculous.

<< Ww

Image 3:
Brea @​ 490% 2:05 PM

€ Toot

& Fedilab
@​[email protected]​framapiaf.org

I will stop here with #Gab by
removing the block feature inside
the app in the next release.

My motivations:

- I didn't receive a reply from
Google policy team about a
potential ban of the application.
- Without the previous risk, I
clearly think that's not my role. I
can't hard-code instance blocks
especially when every tools are
here for that.

- If you want a strong block, it's
in the hands of social network
developers or your admins.

Image 4:
Ba ree @​ F 4 89% 2:06 PM

€ Toot

& Fedilab
@​[email protected]​framapiaf.org

More clearer poll to followers only.

Should I block Gab instance?

68% yes
32% no

65 votes = 1 day left
& Jun 18, 2019 2:05 PM

« Ww

Fedilab @​[email protected]​framap...26m

OK. I am going to remove this
block. But of course, if I receive
a response from Google Play
about a potential ban, I will put it
back.

SA. AS

Fedilab, Nazi enabling 

@sandrockcstm Criminy! No matter what their position or opinion, the way they've responded really paints a picture!

"Please don't call stopping comments about decaptitating babies 'censorship'."

"But censorshiiiiiip."

They say you're being ridiculous, but I think they just made themselves look bad by the end.

@sandrockcstm
This is highly disappointing. Fedilab just made a post last week or so that Gab wouldn't be accessible through the app. There was a whole new binary and everything. I don't understand why they're going back on that now... Oh well, time to get another app.

Fedilab, Nazi enabling 

@sandrockcstm While this decision is absolutely awful... why the "stop using fedilab" conclusion? Does that impact the dev negatively? Are they making money off of it?

I mean, I get that it's important to not support nazi supporters, I just don't know if this does that.

Fedilab, Nazi enabling 

@sandrockcstm Thanks for sharing. Do you know of any good Android app alternatives to fedilab?

Fedilab, Nazi enabling 

@sandrockcstm Dammit and I just started using Fedilab.

Welp! I guess I'm looking for a new Masto app!

re: Fedilab, Nazi enabling 

@sandrockcstm "It's not the role of a dev to act like this if the app has no risks to to be banned."

Umm....

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer

Fedilab's off my radar and into my threat model now.

re: Fedilab, Nazi enabling 

@drwho Exactly this. I was honestly shocked at the stance he took. And that he was so transparent about his lack of ethics.

re: Fedilab, Nazi enabling 

@sandrockcstm If nothing else, it's nice that he no longer feels he has to act like he does. It's always useful to know exactly who and what you're dealing with.

re: Fedilab, Nazi enabling 

@drwho @sandrockcstm

Small mercies are mercies still, and all that. 😔

re: Fedilab, Nazi enabling 

@drwho @sandrockcstm @sydneyfalk i sympathize extremely with the “(government|play store|payment processor) policies will force us to block switter if the blocking functionality exists” argument.

re: Fedilab, Nazi enabling 

@riking @sydneyfalk @sandrockcstm I had not considered that. That's an excellent point.

re: Fedilab, Nazi enabling 

@drwho @riking @sandrockcstm

I sympathize like hell but I also don't want endless nazi porn, so I don't know what else to suggest. Maybe if app devs draw the line at hate speech Google might actually manufacture a spine if the FOSTA crowd show up, I want to think.

But, hell, I don't know.

I miss what I used to think the fed was, I think.

re: Fedilab, Nazi enabling 

@sydneyfalk @riking @sandrockcstm Groups of people always bring their problems with them. This seems to be one of the ones that crept in the back door.

Fedilab, Nazi enabling, Invidious 

@sandrockcstm very disappointing, even worrying.

FYI, similar situation happening with youtube replacement #invidious recently:

github.com/omarroth/invidious/

its maintainer seems OK with providing support for alt-right social tools Gab and Dissenter

re: Fedilab, Nazi enabling, Invidious 

@gatewave @sandrockcstm One thing to remember is that if the nazis succeed with their current strategy of cooption then the fediverse will be labeled by politicians as "a terrorist network" and its future will be in doubt - regardless of whatever technical capabilities it has. So the battle over whether certain instances are blocked or not is more important than most people think.

re: Nazi enabling, Invidious 

@gatewave @sandrockcstm I'm cloudrac3r in that thread.

I have my own front-end for YouTube, powered by a self-hosted copy of Invidious's API, which fills exactly the same purpose as Invidious. It's called CloudTube, and you can find it here: https://cadence.moe/cloudtube/subscriptions

Feel free to use this as an alternative now that Invidious's creator has made his stance on nazis clear.

re: Nazi enabling, Invidious 

@gatewave @sandrockcstm also a bit ironic that the thread about free speech was locked because he didn't like people saying "hey maybe you shouldn't do this"

re: Nazi enabling, Invidious 

@cadence @sandrockcstm thanks for being such a well-spoken advocate in that thread. not easy.

Fedilab, Nazi enabling, Invidious 

@gatewave @sandrockcstm wtf this makes my blood boil. Thanks for sharing.

Fedilab, Nazi enabling 

@sandrockcstm but wait, Tom blocked them first, what changed?

Fedilab, Nazi enabling 

@sandrockcstm
Welp, unistalling and getting Tusky.
Nit going to support a dev who believes they have no impact and nazis are someone else problem.
Do your freaking part fedilab

Fedilab, Nazi enabling 

@sandrockcstm
Oof.

@fedilab , this is a bad decision. It's 2019, please stop fooling yourself that opposing this sort of shit is optional. It's a vital statement of ethics.

I've used Fedilab for nine months, and talked it up. But if this is your stance I will look for alternatives. 😕

Fedilab, Nazi enabling 

@erosdiscordia let me know what you settle on. ive been using it since 2017 and dropping it

re: Fedilab, Nazi enabling 

@sandrockcstm it's not even a comparable situation with them using mastodon. i've never been impressed with eugen's management of the project and responses to criticisms of it, but it's decentralized and under GPL. can't change that without hurting the rest of us.
fedilab on the other hand is a paid app. he is directly benefiting from enabling these people, and that's morally reprehensible. let them fork it to remove the block, but don't take their damn money.

Fedilab, Nazi enabling 

@sandrockcstm

While on one hand I agree that app developers should adhere to the principles of net neutrality rather than acting as arbiters, on the other hand I also agree that literal Nazis are always the exception to the rule.

Any suggestions on what you would have me use instead?

re: Fedilab, Nazi enabling 

@sandrockcstm Why do so many dev's have to be nazi sympathizing, women hating, shitheads?

image description for whole thread, VERY LONG, Fedilab, Nazi enabling 

@sandrockcstm user @[email protected], replying to fedilab: we all have a moral duty to oppose nazis and white supremacists using whatever tools are at our disposal. you are in a position where you a) know that this instance is a nazi instance, and b) can stop or slow it down. you have an ethical and moral obligation to oppose them. neutrality in this case is the same as providing them aid. nazi are the exception to the rule.

Fedilab replying to @[email protected]: c) it is not the role of a dev to act like this if the app has no risks to be banned. did you you say the same thing to mastodon devs, where that action would be more powerful?

user @[email protected] replying to Fedilab: yes it is, and its deeply disturbing to me that you are already finding excuses not to do this when the foll hasn't even finished yet. you are just looking for permission to do what you want to do? gargron has made it clear he doesn't give two shits about feedback from his users so, no, i haven't wasted my time trying to squeeze blood from that rock.

user switching.social replying to Fedilab: in my honest opinion, gab really is an exceptionally dangerous site: bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48672929 to quote this article "the court heard the teenagers used pseudonyms to run personal accounts on the gab social media site.." "suggested targets included non-white and Jewish people, and the effect was to overtly encourage acts of violence against members of the public, the judge added." "in online comments, Dunn-Koczorowski suggested decapitating babies would be acceptable to stop them becoming "leftist politicians""

Fedilab replying to switching.social: dont get me wrong. i want to outline a futur/current problem of the fediverse. here, its about gab but tomorrow it will be another one etc. when social networks dev don't act themselves, why app dev should do? our impact is minor and we cant only make half happy or unhappy and another app will be used. we refrain nothing. we should think on a more collective way to act without censoring.

user @[email protected] replying to Fedilab: because you can. stopping nazis is ALL of our concern, not just the people at the top. if you can make difference at all, you should. also, don't ever compare stopping people advocating for baby decapitation, ethnic cleansing, and oppression as "censorship" ever again. censorship is when governments stop people from expressing their views. this is about defending vulnerable communities from people that literally want to kill them.

Fedilab replying to @[email protected]: how do you want me to disagree? but i cant act with no effects where networks devs could. my action wont stop them. i think we do need to act without censoring. i think that flagged instances (i don't know how) shared with everyone (app devs or whatever) could let know with messages that their instances is banned from a majority and they should switch to another one. we can give reasons. and only people that wont never stop will keep using them, because they want and nothing will stop them

user @[email protected] replying to Fedilab: tell that to alex jones and milo yiannopoulos, both of whom were successfully de-platformed by the collective effort of social networks, services, and individuals.

Fedilab replying to @[email protected]: yes, for a such issue. do you complain to facebook social networks or to facebook app for android? that's the same.

user @[email protected] replying to Fedilab: you complain to both and expect both of them to do what they must to de-platform nazis. and this argument would mean a lot more to me if we didn't both know that the only reason you're considering this is because tusky just de-platformed gab from its app. i'm done retreading the same argument over and over. either you'll oppose the nazis on gab or you wont. when you make that decision you'll let us know who you are, and you wont be able to claim ignorance on the matter.

Fedilab replying to @[email protected]: "let us know who you are" this is ridiculous.

screenshot of a separate post by Fedilab: I will stop here with Gab by removing the block feature inside the app in the next release. my motivations: 1. i didn't receive a reply from google policy team about a potential ban of the application. 2. without the previous risk, i clearly think that's not my role. i cant hard-code instance blocks especially when every tools are here for that. 3. if you want a strong block, its in the hands of social network developers or your admins.

Screenshot of a separate post by Fedilab: More clearer poll to followers only. Should i block Gab instance? attached to a poll that is 68% yes and 32% no with 65 votes.
Fedilab responding with: Ok. i am going to remove this block. but of course, if i receive a response from google play about a potential ban, i will put it back.

image description for whole thread, VERY LONG, Fedilab, Nazi enabling 

ReasonablePerson: Nazis are insane
Fedilab: Will what can I do? Block them from posting?
ReasonablePerson: YES
Fedilab: As a person who writes software, I literally cannot conceive how to possibly do that. I am going to start mailing $10 bills to Nazis until Google cancels me because that is my solution

re: Fedilab, Nazi enabling 

@sandrockcstm I've given them the benefit of the doubt for a while, hoping they'd see sense, but now it's definitely time to uninstall Fedilab. I know there are good people working on Tusky, so that's now my Fediverse app.

Fedilab, Nazi enabling 

@sandrockcstm woah, I thought this was a bad joke. But no, some of my comrades have a little bit too much free time and energy.

Fedilab, Nazi enabling 

@sandrockcstm As I once saw someone put it: If you run a bar, and there are Nazis gathering regularly in your bar, and you do nothing, then congratulations -- you're now the Nazi bar.

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