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Wondering, if... Setting up a fundraising site on the premise of paying it forward would be useful.

Because I'm sure things like trans crowd fund would benefit from that.

Ofc, we'd first start off with a lot of people in need, but we'd also maybe find people who appreciate the idea of paying it forward.

If you have the spoons, take this idea and run with it.

So basically, it'd be about getting people on their feet, and giving them the emotional space to get their shit together while they can eat and pay for their bills without worry.

Making it less of a crazy hurdle to get out of that shit.

Once they manage to get a job or an income enough, they can move off, and that money can keep going to other people.

Instead of begging every month to cover those bills.

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It could also have like a creator side, to compete with patreon.

And the fees for that, would actually siphon into supporting those in need instead of endlessly expanding a company for profit (cough, Patreon).

No corporate pay out. Focus on the people.

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The team working on it, similar to how @Liberapay has it set up, get paid through the site (but with some contracts in place for health care and insurance, for this particular team, that may need to be localized due to different rules, aaanywyss).

this would offer incredible transparency. You'd know who's on the team, who's working with what. Etc.

This would too be on the creator side, and yes we'd also pay the fees to support the pay it forward side

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People who've been paid forward, would once they move off it receive a congratulations email, because it would be a huge accomplishment. And we share their story with the community, for those who opted into those emails, but also on site.

Then after a year, no earlier, they'd get an email asking if they would like to pay it forward. And start contributing on a regular basis.

These mails would go out on their anniversary of getting off the help from the support.

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Btw, this is basically how social security should work. But hey.

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There's probably more to this.

If you're a creator, but also in need, you would be able to build up your support, but also get help to even out. This would be clear in your monthly statement, and publicly on your page.

An account could be both, and yes at some point the fee you're paying to pay it forward would actually straight up cover your own support, but you'd be on your way to getting off that support and entirely paying it forward.

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I am falling more and more in love with this idea. I just can't spearhead it.

But I'd love to join in some kind of advisory position if anyone wants to work on something like this.

Wondering if using something like Open Collective, that you can self host, maybe fork to add some of the specifics, would be a good basis for this.

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I want to emphasize, that I said take this idea and run with it. I did say that I wouldn't mind giving feedback, but heck, I shouldn't be involved, don't think that's some kind of hitch.

There are of course problems in the world which needs to be addressed in order to do something like this, or finding ways around it.

I believe that we have enough smart people, and critical thinkers and analysts around to solve this problem.

I believe, in you.

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@maloki How does this not turn into a personality and bias contest rather than what you envision?

@AraneaeDiscordia ask yourself why would it be what your envisioning, and what would you like to do to prevent that?

@maloki Because people are people, and if I had an answer for that my novel would be done, but I asked you first, so no take backs. Seriously, how would you prevent that?

@AraneaeDiscordia no. Seriously, take some time. Think about it. I find it rude that your demanding of me to solve a problem, immediately.

Because this was just written off the top of my head, I've not put any deep thought into it.

So help, by figuring out how to.

But off the top of my head, add caps. Let people set their "I need x to cover basic costs" then add something on top because people got to live too.

Same for creators, add caps.

@maloki You said you were further in love with the idea, so I assumed it wasn't an off the top idea. I apologize if you found the challenge demeaning. I feel like we haven't hit on anything different than Patreon. I can do rude, if you'd like, but it wasn't my intention. I hear "poke holes in this" because that was my training. How are people gonna fuck this up?

@AraneaeDiscordia make your own run on thread, figure out the things you'd like to plug.

As I said in like the first post, I'm sharing this to let it run wild. Then it ran wild in my head.

@maloki I'm good, man. I asked you a question. You pushed it back. I pushed it back. You're done. We're good, and you're fine. :)

@lilletale mostly we're not a government.

I see this idea as a basic support network, but the creator thing is just for those it fits. Other people may use the time to find a job elsewhere, or maybe instigate change through policy change and politics.

You see what I'm trying to get at here?

I used creator loosely, because of the angle of competing with patreon, and giving people a more ethical alternative to that.

@lilletale that said, you do not have to create to get the basic pay it forward support!

But if you want to create and get the support, I'd like there to be some kind of combined solution. Not an either or.

@lilletale well, yeah. But that's like another matter, imo.

This is just a means to an end to get out of the constant monthly begging to pay bills, and then be able to easily pay it forward.

@lilletale aaanywyss, like everything, it's with discussiing, I just don't have the energy. I was kind of just letting this idea it into the wild, and it got bigger, because I was just going to post that first message...

@lilletale @maloki I think this is a good critique, but a platform like this could also be potentially helpful in reframing this conversation. Maybe the account creation process could be set up specifically to encourage people to think about the work they do that is domestic or otherwise traditionally erased.
I’ve been thinking of this re: how to re-prioritize this work economically

@b_cavello @lilletale I don't disagree with the critique, but like 0 spoons, just letting this idea out.

@maloki @lilletale that’s cool. I respect that you don’t have spoons, but I don’t think people are even expecting you to respond. It’s just a mutual idea-letting given your suggestion to run with the idea.
If you don’t want people to reply, that’s fine. Maybe include in the thread?

@b_cavello why is.. I don't know if I'm misreading everyone today, or if everyone's misreading me, or if I'm just raw from yesterday's trauma trigger 🙃.

Anyways, thing is, when it's a direct @ with a question, for me, I'm expected to respond so I try to the best I can.

I thought the first post was indicative of that I don't hold all the answers, and don't have energy to solve it all?

@lilletale

@maloki @lilletale for sure! But that interaction already took place and you replied to me in the thread as well even tho I didn’t ask you anything, so I was responding as tho you intentionally were replying then rather than to the initial question. Sounds like maybe that wasn’t intentional!
I think most folks engage with things on here as a conversation which often includes questions, so if you’re not up for it that’s okay but it might go counter to expectations.

@maloki It sounds like you’re having a pretty stressful time right now, so if you don’t want to continue this conversation, definitely no pressure. Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I hope you have a beautiful day. 💖

@maloki you might be surprised. With the right set up, I think it could be quite successful

@maloki I’m in no position either. There’s a few programs I’m working on in my spare time, mostly along education reform lines.

@maloki I am passing your posts along though. I’ve got a lot of friends who might want to help and/or run with it. :)

@maloki I’m an old school twitter user ( since 2007 ). I’m trying to get more people to move here, but as of now, I’m not boosting to much of anyone here, lol.

@maloki I know! Lol. I’m still getting used to the slight, but refreshing, differences here. I was actually having trouble decided which of your posts would make the best summary to boost. It’s a tough call

@jacklhasa for Federation I recommend boosting the first and the last post. Then you help spread the whole thread.

@maloki although it’s difficult to tell which is which sometimes

@jacklhasa not if you look at the thread. They should be in order

@maloki I see it now. The problem was just that I had started reading mid-thread. lol.

@maloki I read the thread. How is this not just a traditional charity? What sets it apart?

@paco Different visibility. The pay it forward ethos. Money not just disappearing into endless administrative costs, but an effort to minimize that as much as possible, and keeping it transparent.

The constant flow of return with the "fees" instead of the money disappearing to unknown places.

Combining it with a creator side, an ethical alternative to patreon.

I don't know. This is just, as I said to someone else, off the top of my head.

@paco at this point, it's just an idea, I was only writing that first post to get it out of my head.

Then it grew before I even got out of bed.

For me it's a need to help people, and being helped. I often say helping me helps others, because when I can I immediately pay it forward, even before I can really afford to.

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Elekk: Gameing and Other Delightful Pursuits

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