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Open Source Dev Musings / Fork-off 

When someone tells you to "Just fork it" it is always a power play from their side. They are saying it because they know that you alone can't do anything about it.

They know you can't fork it if you're not a coder.

They know you can't fork it if you only understand front-end stuff.

They know you can't fork it alone.

Telling someone you know can't fork it to do it is equivalent to Fuck off, or as some other people said it.

Open Source Dev Musings / Fork-off 

But what if you're not alone?

What if so many of us have been told to that we together possess enough knowledge and experiences that we can go forward with this project?

What if we survey the battlefield (because that's what it felt like today) and see what we can contribute, together?

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Open Source Dev Musings / Fork-off 

No one can alone, but together we may be able to.

I present to you: The Great Fork-Off Survey of 2018

goo.gl/forms/lZb2R1lEGFf6RIGg2

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Open Source Dev Musings / Fork-off 

This is just one step, among many towards finding out what we can do, if we just do it together.

Take your time with it, you don't have to answer it all right now, we also don't have to all the answers today.

But please jot down any questions in that last box, any thoughts that popped into your head that you don't want us to lose, and I'll do my best to make sure they are in another survey down the road. Or addressed somehow.

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Keep CWs ON! Fork-off 

Since we all had a really rough day with a lot of meta discourse, I want to encourage everyone to keep the CWs on when we talk about this today/tomorrow and so forth.

Because I don't want to be the reason to drain more people of energy because of this.

If your replies to me remove the CWs I've already set, I probably wont respond to you.

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Open Source Dev Musings /#ForkOffTogether Fork-off 

And I've added another / updated tag!

Not only

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Keep CWs ON! Fork-off 

@maloki (remember that a couple clients - Tusky, I think? - don't include CWs in replies, and people may not know this.)

Keep CWs ON! Fork-off 

@maloki Hey, I really like the work that's been done on Mastodon. And I'm very appreciative of those who have done work on it. But I look at what people are dealing with, and the work that's being prioritized, and I think it's divergent. And that's okay. Those people who want to keep on keeping on, you do you. I don't.

Keep CWs ON! Fork-off 

@maloki I want the project to have a balanced board in charge instead of a single person. I want there to be a stated list of goals for the environment and priorities for development. I know that I'm only gonna see things from my perspective, so I want a group of diverse voices that can bring up if something is going to be an issue, and I want those voices to be respected. That's why I'm choosing to #ForkOff

Keep CWs ON! Fork-off 

@maloki If you decide to come on board to help out, it's appreciated! And it's not just a coding thing! It's an accessibility thing. It's a community thing. There are many ways to help out on the #ForkOff .

Keep CWs ON! Fork-off 

@maloki How do I block it? It's getting ridiculously dominant in my feed :x

Open Source Dev Musings / Fork-off 

@maloki Am I starting to see #ForkOff because Eugen got pissed at people for hating trending and told them to go build their own Mastodon? Or did something else happen?

Ironically, I can tell #ForkOff is trending without a trending pane because it's a trend and people are talking about it.

Open Source Dev Musings / Fork-off 

@maloki
u guys dont start good... google? #fuckoffgoogle maybe loomio?

Open Source Dev Musings / Fork-off 

@maloki
its not just fork it... which tools to use to improve direct democracy? can we start feom the beginning with them?

@maloki

its totally a legit thing to say tho. the software is free. you aren't owed anything. if they don't want to take the software in the direction you're suggesting, they don't have to. BUT if you can pull together a team that can make it happen, you're set!

honestly, learning how to write software isn't THAT difficult and there are tons of free resources online to help you.

Open Source Dev Musings / Fork-off 

@xj You don't have CWs on your side, do you?

I know it's a complete legit thing to say though, but what I'm saying is also legit.

However, as a contributor to the project, by being a project manager, my contributions didn't account for anything because I didn't provide code. We were told to ForkOff, because we hadn't contributed? Code isn't the only contribution.

Anyways, I'm doing something constructive out of this.

@maloki

> assuming my platform

i have CWs, but i believe the only purpose they serve is enabling jokes with punchlines so i toggle the little CW switch in the input box.

> Code isn't the only contribution

i didn't say code was the only contribution. i said, you're getting community and technology for free. you aren't entitled to anything.

if you want a community that better shares your values and vision for a future social network you should find or create one.

Open Source Dev Musings / Fork-off 

@xj

I'm CWing because I want to not contribute to un-CWd meta discourse.

If you don't want to do them the same courtesy I don't think there's a conversation to be had here.

You can check the rest of the thread with the musings to get the full context, I guess?

Open Source Dev Musings / Fork-off 

@maloki

On the other hand, if you speak for a community, you aren't alone, are you?

Open Source Dev Musings / Fork-off 

@deejoe Read the rest as well please.

Open Source Dev Musings / Fork-off 

@maloki

The rest of what?

Open Source Dev Musings / Fork-off 

@deejoe You replied to the first toot, so my assumtion is that you didn't read the next 3 in that thread.

Where I talk about all the things?

Open Source Dev Musings / Fork-off 

@maloki

Oh, I see it now.

Where you walk back the premise of the dig in the first toot.

@maloki
"They know you can't fork it if you only understand front-end stuff. "

??????

Open Source Dev Musings / Fork-off 

@alfred I was trying to make an example that if you don't understand the backend of the code, you wouldn't be able to make use of a proper fork.

Make sense?

Like, if I only left in the they know you can't because you aint a coder, some would've been "I can code front-end but don't understand the backend of Mastodon" or something.

covering bases.

Open Source Dev Musings / Fork-off 

@maloki This has always been one of my complaints as a user. Several times I cried and begged for a little understanding from the developers. But some simply refuse to see outside their own particular bubbles. I watched how a project that could have replaced popular Windows software in a matter of months got delayed by years simply because the devs refused to change their point of view.

And when the software was perfected, it was irrelevant already. F'in waste of time.

Open Source Dev Musings / Fork-off 

@rick_777 @maloki Just out of curiosity and for future conversations about how FOSS Just Can't Replace, which project was that? No need to reply if you don't want to - or DM if needed.

Open Source Dev Musings / Fork-off 

@maloki Frontend stuff is a valid ground for a fork. Every server with a custom skin or emoji is a fork, capable of updating from the upstream.

Even if you don't know anything about backend, Mastodon has 61 open pull requests. You can just say "i want to approve this, this and this rejected request" (1 button click in github) and there you have a new fork.

Open Source Dev Musings / Fork-off 

@oreolek your right, it was a bad example.

I was just trying to add a "but I'm a coder that doesn't mean I can fork it".

Does that make sense?

Open Source Dev Musings / Fork-off 

@maloki not quite IMO.

There's an issue you can't have because upstream said so, you're marginalized and lack skills or $ to do it yourself, you want to find someone with skills or $. For a fork.

Natural barrier: forking is meaningless without a flagship. Cost would be $150 per year (for a small circle)

Still not an independent project. It would be your own instance with your own rules and a bit of new code. A new community in the fediverse.

Open Source Dev Musings / Fork-off 

@maloki There's an ambition slope. It starts small, like "I want an instance with/out those features and moderators", then transforms into "I want only the features I need" and then "Complete independence from Masto, fresh plate".

Power play would be "you have to work with us and you know it", this is a way out: make your own community and you won't have to contact Masto except for the patches.

Small scale, just buy a hosting. No need to be a coder for a fork.

Open Source Dev Musings / Fork-off 

@maloki I truly sympathize with the reasons of both parts, but as a coder, I'd just like to point out that a fork is not about code at all, it's about community and userbase. Coders are usually not rare, and it's pointless to fork a project alone.

I also think "just fork it", is a very very predictable answer in a climate of hostility. That said, I really hope that didn't also end the healthy part of the discussion.

Open Source Dev Musings / Fork-off 

@lookbeavers unfortunately it always is used to end any possibility of healthy discussion. And preferably all discussion.

As a non-coder it's very much about "I can't do this, I don't know what to do with the code"

But this isn't necessarily "we're definitely forking", but rather "is it viable for us to fork to get the governance we want /need and have begged for".

And already the response for seems to be enough to do.

Open Source Dev Musings / Fork-off 

@gme we can just agree to disagree then.

This isn't it the one feature nor only any what transpired yesterday regarding that one feature.

This has been building up for a while.

Open Source Dev Musings / Fork-off 

@gme this is what happens to the disenfranchised.

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