my advice to getting good at smash is to play lots of matches against competent zeldas

all of my smash bros technique comes from being gay and studying chihayafuru

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@witchfynder_finder actually the secret is to lose fewer stocks than your opponent, girls is just a good technique for doing that

@jellyfish_link Ah, now I see what I have been doing wrong, I thought it was the other way around

@witchfynder_finder i jest but it's amazing the number of "elite smashers" who think the secret to smash lies in mastering technical combos and not simply not losing for longer than your opponent

@witchfynder_finder but i mean this is where we get into philosophical disagreements

there are four ways the score can change in a game of smash:

1. you best your opponent
2. your opponent bests you
3. you fuck up
4. your opponent fucks up

the mentality of “winning” generally implies a game of 1 vs. 2, you best your opponent more than your opponent bests you. but you can also play a game of 4 vs. 2, or 4 vs. 3, or 1 vs 3. the point is that it doesn't matter. the game does not care how stocks get taken, it only cares whether you lose fewer of them than your opponent. that's the secret.

@witchfynder_finder the reason why it is important to play against girls is because girls, especially like Samus and Zelda, play by game sense, which is something most smashers do not understand and hate going up against. if you can master game sense and get good at not losing stocks against those sorts of characters, you are putting yourself in a position of strength going up against whatever captain falcon who only knows how to combo and punish without any sense for the spirit of the game. just imo, i'm not a competitive smasher or anything, fuck those nerds

@jellyfish_link @witchfynder_finder is "game sense" approximately equivalent to "neutral"?

(also, that flowchart captain falcon probably doesn't have good footsies either. even if he's got advantage during neutral but hasn't hit you yet, you still should be able at least reset to neutral with some care, and Samus with a charge shot could probably skip straight to advantage out of there.)

@bb010g @witchfynder_finder no, game sense is being able to sense the game, i.e. anticipate the flow of battle and consistently “guess right”

@jellyfish_link @witchfynder_finder ah, okay. so, in traditional fighting game terminology, would that be "reads" or "yomi"?


@bb010g @witchfynder_finder strictly speaking probably, but i mean it not just in the sense of just reading your opponent but also reading the match itself. advantage/neutral/disadvantage is such kindergarten terminology when like, it's not just whether you “have advantage” but also HOW, what your options are within (dis)advantage, and again. advantage doesn't win games. what wins games is losing fewer stocks than your opponent. advantage is just one technique for achieving that.

@jellyfish_link @witchfynder_finder absolutely; there really are a bunch of different varieties from matchup to matchup

there's a beautiful diagram from Sethlon's old PM Roy guide kinda on this

@jellyfish_link @witchfynder_finder on this too, competitive Smash's timer decisions are cultural

Melee's & Ultimate's timers are both really long for winning by timeout (zoner character or not) compared to traditional fighting games

Stumblebee has a good video on the importance of timers in fighters (~11 minutes):

and Melee Stats recently put out a video on how Melee in particular *strongly* dislikes playing to time (~30 minutes):

@jellyfish_link @witchfynder_finder being happy keeping your stock lead with Zelda and just moving around means probably up to ~5 minutes of the other player waiting for the game to officially be over

(during which, they'll probably start to crack and you can straight up take a win, but games can run *long*)

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Elekk: Gameing and Other Delightful Pursuits

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